Junmei Is So Funny From Xie Lian's Perspective. Imagine Your Former Mentor That Dipped 800 Years Ago

Hello, is there any evidence and/or depictions of Tamg Dynasty women actually wearing the hezi as an undergarment rather than an outer garment?

(If you don't know what "hezi/诃子" is, I'll put it under the Keep Reading.)

Hi!!

I checked on Baidu, I checked on Google, I checked on Bili, I checked in my Hanfu books, I checked on 小红书 (popular Chinese app), and from all the information I gathered the simple answer is:

No.

As of right now, there are no artefacts or paintings depicting women of the Tang Dynasty wearing the undergarment hezi (诃子) inside. I imagine one of the difficulties with undergarments is most depictions (paintings, figures, etc) wouldn't show people wearing it without outer wear, so we can only rely on tomb excavations to unearth actual garments, and right now none have been discovered.

But you never know what they might uncover in the future! I heard when they expanded Xi'an's airport last time they dug out 3,500 tombs, so they're always finding new things :D

Hezi (诃子) is a woman's undergarment that many people thought was worn during the Tang Dynasty. It was strapless and covered the bust, then gradually evolved to be worn with portions being viewable on the outside (the green strip across the bust would be the 'hezi'):

However, no actual artefacts have been uncovered to show anyone wearing hezi inside, so the official status of this garment is "under question (存疑)".

A lot of Hanfu stores sell hezi dresses (诃子裙) which is actually not a historically accurate garment. They connect the top and bottom portion so it's just one long dress rather than separated (and they added straps for convenience). It does tend to be a very "stereotypical" look for the Tang Dynasty for people who aren't familiar with historically accurate Hanfu:

汉服复兴之路 History of Hanfu Revival Movement

History of Hanfu:

“Hanfu" as a technical term refers to traditional clothing worn by the Han ethnic group in China （Han = Han ethnic group, Fu = clothing).

The last Dynasty of China, Qing, saw a ruling class of the Manchu ethnic group who had attacked the Ming Dynasty from the North and ultimately achieved victory. This resulted in a forceful change of attire from "Han" clothing to "Man" clothing and fashion:

This included men being forced to shave the front half of their heads, leaving a long braid in the back (those who refused were beheaded)(四爷，借用一下您的盛世美颜😂) :

Therefore, technically, "Hanfu" had not been worn in China since the end of the Ming Dynasty (1616 AD).

Following the establishment of the current People's Republic of China (1949 AD) the country busied itself with development and economic growth. By the early 2000's China had undergone 2 rounds of economic reform and saw an economy that was flourishing. This left people with more time and money to revisit the country's vast history and rich culture (it's difficult to think about culture or history when you're trying to put food on the table).

Hanfu revival movement:

On November 22, 2003, an electric engineer by the name of Wang Letian (王乐天) strode through the streets of Deng Zhou wearing a Quju robe . This was the first time someone wore Hanfu for a casual outing since almost 400 years ago. Although, looking back, the design wasn't historically accurate, and the clothing seemed ill-fitting, this robe had been hand-sewn by Wang Letian and his friends, all of whom had a passion for Hanfu.

At the time, people laughed when they saw him in the streets, it looked so odd and strange among the sweaters and jeans that had become the norm, but Wang Letian had started a snowball of Hanfu revival. The internet spread photos of him wearing Hanfu through the streets and by chance, a Singaporean reporter, Zhang Congxing (张从兴), came across the photos. He wrote an article in the newspaper Lianhe Morning Report (联合早报) which became the first news article recorded of the current movement to revive Hanfu.

Following that, interest in Hanfu grew. People (especially young people) dug through history books, visited museums, and broke out the sewing kits. Today, Hanfu can often be seen around sightseeing locations and in historic cities like Xi'an. Although most people still aren't wearing it out and about daily, it's not uncommon to see someone wearing a Mamian Skirt (from Ming dynasty) with a blouse heading to work.

There are still some who think it's odd and strange (including my dad 😑), but the revival in Hanfu indicates a confidence and pride many young people have in China's own history and culture, something that had been often neglected over the past 100 years due to continuous wars and political chaos.

As a kid, I loved period dramas and would drape a bed sheet around my shoulders pretending it's a cape. I'd admire the beautiful hair styles on TV, wondering how it was done. Never did I dream one day I'd be able to purchase my own Hanfu and have a suitcase of hair buns and accessories 🤣🤣

So I made a Mamianqun!

I've been wanting to make a one for so long. Then I saw this fabric in an outlet that sells faulty fabrics discarded from factories, where you can find some unusual stuff that you can't find in regular shops.

This fabric is supposed to have this print all over, but got only printed at the bottom. If you squint you can see faded print marks on the middle section too. The moment I saw this I immediately thought of a mamianqun because a lot of mamianqun come with bottom print 😍.

However do not copy me in this, because I only thought of the pattern and not the fact that the fabric is too bulky and heavy especially for dress with humongous volume. It does not make for for the nicest, crispiest pleats as you can see in the pictures below. Also this is gonna be such a pain to wash and dry.

But I will give myself a pat on the back because this is my first attempt, and for someone who has never taken a formal sewing class nor is able to properly follow any instructional guide because I'm scatterbrained like that, I think I did a pretty swell job! ☺

Even though it took me a whole damn day and numerous frustrating unpicking and redoing over and over again, lol.

Though I am not able to provide you a guide (because like I said, I myself am incapable of following any), I used the following four sources to get an idea about what I am trying to do to begin with. I studied these four, then attempted it myself and figured it out gradually as I went, through trial and error.

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1. This helped me understand the overall geometry of the garment.

Hanfu Forum & Community

Hanfu Making(2) - Aoqun Cutting & Sewing Patterns - Newhanfu

Hanfu making series topic 2: this section includes Aoqun (袄裙): Duan Ao (短袄), Da Ao (大袄), Mamian Qun (马面裙).

2. This gave me clear visual aid about what the end product should look like.

Tumblr

Difference between a Mǎmiànqún/马面裙 and Bǎidiéqún/百迭裙

Hello! I just wanted to highlight the differences between a maminaqun and baidiequn because they can look similar at first glance. Both appe

3. This doll-size mamianqun video was simple and gave a very good and non-complex demo of the process.

4. This helped me with understanding how to attach the waistband.

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The modifications I added myself are:

Making the waistband a button-up. As the skirt was already so heavy, I thought a long strip of a tie would make it even more difficult to handle. But at the same time it is not easy to secure something like this so it wouldn't accidentally fall apart. So I used two sturdy buttons from the front, and another button in the back, from inside (you can't see it)

Adding pockets! In the 3rd source I posted above, at the 0:41 mark you see that there's this one huge pleat that gets folded inwards, right?

And I thought, two simple vertical and horizontal stitches from inside can turn them to pockets, so why not!

The final product! Yayyy!

(Don't look at the imperfections, they are shy ok!)

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More posts by me

nothing has made me realize that joongdok are gay and canon more than this bingo and the fact that joongdok cross every single one

homoerotic fighting: divorce arc and theater dungeon

gay stare: this happens on every interaction. I cannot list them all in one post

Adopted a child together: Yoo Joonghyuk raised Biyoo. Yoo Joonghyuk trained Shin Yooseung hard to the point she has the story "Disciple of the Supreme King." Yoo Joonghyuk sparred with Lee Gilyoung and taught him lessons on regrets (Lee Gilyoung thought Yoo Joonghyuk can't be philosophical to save his life). All three of these kids consider Kim Dokja their father too.

"Let's run away together.": "Let's go back to Earth, Kim Dokja.

Lands in a homoerotic position: The only duo to have seen each other naked. Among other things.

Jokes about them being gay: "Hmm, maybe if your position changes..." "Wait, how did you give birth to a child?" "Are you two a couple?" "I heard you're interested in sodomy." "I know. I know. You don't like girls." "I think you're misinformed. Hyung likes a man." "I'M NOT INTERESTED IN MEN." "I think I know who spread that rumor but ignore her. I like women." etc

Gets mistaken for a couple: Read above but also the fact they got nominated for Star Stream's best chemistry award.

Promises that sounds like vows: Having a story that's titled "Life and Death Companions" (aka marriage vows) isn't enough they had to make each other promises like "We can save the world. You know that right." "I'll finish your story for you." "I'll end your oldest dream." "You fool, you're not reading alone." "If you won't do it (won't open up to me), fool, then I will (force you to open up to me)." "If I choose you as my sponsor will I get to meet you?" "1864." "Tell me you fool if I continue to regress will I ever get to meet you?" "Let's make a promise. Never give up on life. As long as you don't give up on life, I will continue to write for you."

Referred to as a married couple: To this day Lee Jihye thought they were divorced and Yoo Joonghyuk hadn't paid child support.

Violence, cannibalism, or blood: some people might consider choking your soulmate upon first meeting to be violent. Also consuming stories (people are stories) as a metaphor for cannibalism. I don't need to talk about blood. Yoo Joonghyuk's blood was spilled 1864 times and none of it scarred him as much as him being forced to spill Kim Dokja's blood by his own hands.

Parallels or foils of each other: although not too... in your face, joongdok are foils of each other at times. Case in point the CEO interview where Kim Dokja says he doesn't plan to save anyone but his friends (he ends up saving everyone at the cost of his own) and Yoo Joonghyuk says he'll try his best to see this turn to its end (he ends up leaving everything for the chance to bring one person back). They're also parallels in very specific ways. Kim Dokja has chosen to parallel 999th Yoo Joonghyuk. Both self-sacrifice out of love for their companions and guilt over their own survival (thinking they're both the only person to actually "exist"). And Lee Hakhyun is a parallel to 1863rd Yoo Joonghyuk.

"You saved me.": "You saved me once. Now I'm going to save you." "He recognized that light. It was the light of the star that had protected him all this time."

If one was a girl, they'd end up together: so many people in the fandom have said this. Especially when they learn that Punisher is Yoo Joonghyuk.

Adopted a pet together: Breaking the Sky Sword Master kicked their asses and so they had no choice but to adopt her.

Both Single: See, this is what sets JoongDok apart from other yaoi. They do not have love interests. Lee Seolhwa doesn't care for Yoo Joonghyuk romantically in this round, and Yoo Joonghyuk hasn't had the time to even think about romance when his life and death companion is giving him a brand new regression depression every time he sacrifices himself. And as for Kim Dokja, the idea of dating him gets treated as a joke by the KimCom women who also make lighthearted fun about his size (Jung Heewon and Han Sooyoung) and frankly speaking, all of them deserve better than these two.

Being the only ones able to understand each other: "Perhaps, Yoo Joonghyuk understood my heart better than anyone else." ALSO I have a take that many of you reading this might consider it controversial, but you will only take this away from me once I'm dead. Yoo Joonghyuk and Kim Dokja understand each other better than Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung do. Sure, Yoo Joonghyuk and Kim Dokja have a wall they need to break first before reaching the point of understanding each other without the need to speak words. But Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung have a wall too and they never once managed to actually break it (They know nothing about each other outside of fiction related matters, which I guess you could make the argument that in a story where fiction became reality other things wouldn't matter, however keep in mind that all the problems Kimcom faced during the epilogue come from the fact that these two do not, in fact, understand each other. Kim Dokja treated Han Sooyoung as a companion but Han Sooyoung saw Kim Dokja as only a reader.)

Lives together (and they were roommates): Singshong already said in their interview for the simplified chinese release that Kim Dokja's dream of 'Buying a big house and living together with everyone' is shared by Yoo Joonghyuk too.

Trauma bonded: *insert he's just like me fr image*

Codependent / Can't live without each other: there's no one in orv who embodies this as well and as catastrophically as these two do. being created for the sole purpose of saving one person. taking the chance to regress and doom the world over and over to save him. searching for this one person harder than anyone else.

Accidental kiss / hug / hand holding etc: Yes, I know. JoongDok do everything under the sun but hug. It's as shocking to you as it is to me. They have held hands however when they were announcing the name of their nebula and a biblical angel thought the perfect name for it would be 'forbidden fruit.' When in doubt, always turn to yaoi.

Breakup scene: Normal people when they break up: each go their own way. They block each other on social media etc. JoongDok when they broke up: Hundreds dead. Thousands injured. Friends not spared. Depression galore.

Practically on a date: Look me in the eye and tell me Murim arc and Journey to the West arc is not just JoongDok on a date.

Their happy ending MUST include both of them: yeah that's why 551 chapters weren't enough. Now we're 123 chapters away from chapter 1000.

"What did you do to them?" AKA protective: "Was it you who beat my companion to this state?" "I will find the person responsible for this mess and... kill them."

LOTS of physical touch: their first meeting starts with a physical touch. They constantly touch each other without fail.

Anyway the best type of fengqing is when they are basically already a couple in canon but it was never really relevant to the plot, and they acted exactly how Xie Lian expected them to (they like fighting sue them), so it’s only post canon that he realises that Mu Qing and Feng Xin like. Fuck sometimes.

I see your “they slowly learn to do away with the false beliefs they have of each other post canon and put their sexual tension to good use” and raise you “yeah they’ve been fucking for a good 500 years out of the 800 they’ve been stuck together” solely because HC would lose his mind what do you MEAN they got together before he and gege did?!

Terrible Trusted Advisors

(Even more of my Nan Feng & Fu Yao are real deputy officials AU)

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How it started

Awkward meeting

Xiao XiChen and Song Lan’s entire relationship was basically just the wanting to live together and start a family and Xiao XiChen would give up his own eyes to Song Lan and Song Lan wondered around for YEARS trying to find him and apologize. Likes it’s so domestically gay?

OKAY SO LEMME SHARE HOW FCKN CANON SONGXIAO IS IN THE NOVEL:

“””most intimate friend””” SUUUUUURE so that’s how we call engaged gays there, huh AND HELL YES TO A HAPPY FIXIT FOR THE YI CITY CREW

I think one of the funniest things about the Sabzeruz event is that the devs choose to go with Candace, Traveler, and Paimon having a whole "Ooh, two mysterious men are going into an alley to have a 'private' conversation; they must be bad guys!" only to then go "Oh just kidding, it was only Alhaitham and Kaveh doing typical Alhaitham and Kaveh things."

Except the "Alhaitham and Kaveh" thing in question this time was talking about Mehrak, a sentient robot that Kaveh built using absolutely forbidden technology, and which he then whole-heartedly willed would develop a consciousness of its own, violating one of the central taboos of his nation's governing agency, committing what amounts to an inherent and extreme felony punishable by law.

Alhaitham and Kaveh: Listen, we're not bad guys discussing illegal activity here. We're just two men having a private, personal conversation. Happens all the time.

Paimon, Candace, and Traveler: Oh cool, they're not doing a crime; they're just gay.

But they were, in fact, doing a crime.

I wanted to make this post since a couple of months ago. As proper summer is coming, Song and Tang style might make a come back in another couple of months.

A fairly good general reference video about historical/traditional fashion of various cultures and peoples (including hanfu, but not just hanfu) that have been part of Chinese history:

The video is arranged in chronological order, below are the timestamps:

0:24 - Warring States period/战国 hanfu (for those who don't know: hanfu/汉服 is the historical and traditional outfits of Han people/汉族)

1:16 - Western Han dynasty/西汉 hanfu

2:11 - Jingjue Kingdom/精绝 and Loulan Kingdom/楼兰 historical outfits

2:45 - Eastern Han dynasty/东汉 to Three Kingdoms period/三国 hanfu

3:51 - Northern Dynasties/北朝 Xianbei/鲜卑 historical outfits

4:46 - Southern Dynasties/南朝 hanfu

5:25 - Sui dynasty/隋 hanfu

5:56 - Tang dynasty/唐 hanfu

6:38 - Sogdian/粟特 historical outfits

6:59 - Tubo Empire/吐蕃 Tibetan/藏族 historical outfits

7:38 - Huihu/回鹘 historical outfits (Qocho Huihu Kingdom/高昌回鹘 and Ganzhou Huihu Kingdom/甘州回鹘; note: Huihu people are the ancestors of the modern Uyghur people/维吾尔族)

8:21 - Nanzhao Kingdom/南诏 historical outfits (of the ancestors of the modern Yi people/彝族 and Bai people/白族)

9:07 - Five Dynasties/五代 hanfu

9:57 - Northern Song dynasty/北宋 hanfu

10:38 - Liao dynasty/辽 Khitan/契丹 historical outfits

11:21 - Jin dynasty/金 Jurchen/女真 historical outfits

12:07 - Western Xia/西夏 Tangut/党项 historical outfits

12:37 - Dali Kingdom/大理 historical outfits (of the ancestors of the modern Bai people/白族)

13:20 - Southern Song dynasty/南宋 hanfu

14:00 - Yuan dynasty/元 Mongolian/蒙古族 historical outfits

14:58 - Yuan dynasty women's hanfu

15:24 - Ming dynasty/明 hanfu

16:24 - Qing dynasty/清 Manchu/满族 traditional outfits

16:59 - Qing dynasty Han women's outfit

**Note: as mentioned by the OP, due to the lack of suriviving physical artifacts for some time periods/cultures/kingdoms/dynasties, there is a certain amount of speculation in this video based on other artifacts/records like wall murals, paintings, figurines, and historical records.